A nasal vaccine by the end of 2024 may be too long in many ways, but to me it sounds like relief really may be here in my lifetime, which I don’t take lightly. There have been many days where I have assumed that I would never do many things again because it wouldn’t be safe. Any hope is welcome.
Exciting news to be sure. At the risk of being an Eeyore but ever mindful of the Post marketing events that tend to discourage many from being vaccinated, whether it is scarification, intradermal, intramuscular, or intranasal, it would be very helpful, if not critical, to state upfront, the downside with regard to the administration via mist via nasal passages - the most direct route to the olfactory bulbs in the frontal lobes of the brain via the rather porous cribriform plate. mRNA vaccines have been associated with a number of inflammatory processes in certain groups of susceptibles, including myocarditis, pericarditis, and various marrow dysplasias. Should these sorts of concerns be addressed early on or should we just wait and see? It is our position, and that of many others that a credible treatment remains a priority in addition to efficacious, durable and safe vaccines
Interesting about pancytopenia after mRNA vaccination- I can only find case reports. Seems very rare to bring up as a top concern? Has this been generally accepted as causally related, and any estimate of frequency out there?
Also, any links to the olfactory/cribriform plate concerns with other nasal vaccines?
Dr McCormick, As for the frontal lobe access issue with nasal vaccines, I haven't explored that simply because it's appears only relevant because of the known effects of the SARS-Cov2 virus during the acute and long-term illness. Many people our team has treated since 2020 complained of varying degrees of "brain fog" and/or anosmia-dysguesia soon after infection so if the nasal vaccine is prevention to capitalizing on the IgA immediate antibody response in the nasal passages, it seems reasonable to question as to whether the genetically modified viral vectors could have some adverse effect not known at this time. There are reports that there are spike protein elements following mRNA vaccines found in the body many weeks after injections and the claim that they "disappear" after they've done their job at the injection site seems a bit contrived, wouldn't you say? BTW: I've had every COVID19 vaccine recommended and I do not disparage their use. I'm simply "playing the devil's advocate" and trying to keep the "all-knowing" proponents honest and open-minded. It's reasonable to question but it's even better to have some concept of the precise outcome. Precision in medicine is not exactly a reality. Sometimes we use the best weapon we have at our disposal and then have to deal with untoward unanticipated consequences. Penicillin injections come to mind......But, I am saddened when a treatment protocol is shown to be safe and efficacious and the response is "that sounds ridiculous" or "you're crazy" rather than "that's interesting. Let me see your data and your clinical responses/outcomes". That latter response has been sorely lacking for the last 4 yrs of our experiences with a credible protocol treating COVID19 in both vaccinated and unvaccinated persons of young and advanced ages. You might care to see my other comments in this substack. RS
Oct 15, 2023·edited Oct 15, 2023Liked by Eric Topol
This is such great news! I look after my elderly father, who has most of the risk factors for dying from Covid (age 84, obesity, hypertension, lung issues), even with full vaccination, so we've stayed isolated all this time. I hope your timeline is accurate, we would really like to rejoin the world one day.
I certainly would have no problem with taking such a vaccine as many times a year as is necessary. It makes me wonder whether repeated mRNA vaccination might help the elderly as well. We have a higher dose flu vaccine for >65yo, how about for covid?
Your Ground Truth Substacks. Podcasts, and commentary in scientific journals and responsible lay publications do a great service to society at a time when anti science sentiment is high and progress is mired by bureaucratic red tape. Your optimism is infectious. Whether you are writing about AI in medicine, sarbecovirus mucosal vaccines, long COVID, or half a dozen other topics in translational medicine, I know that I will learn a great deal by reading your piece and saving its contents for future reference!
I appreciate how clearly you spell out the low and fleeting protection against infection from current intramuscular vaccines. Thank you for trusting readers to distinguish this from protection against severe disease. I wish more people understood this, but PH is not forthright about it.
Is it a similar case of short-lived protection against reinfection after an infection? Thanks for your good work.
Very interesting study just published in Cell (10.1016/j.cell.2023.09.013) on serotonin/tryptophan depletion in some Long-COVID patients. Gut persistence of virus leads to overproduction of interferon, decrease in tryptophan absorption, depletion of serotonin (hyper coagulation), vagal nerve hypofunction and memory impairment.
A nasal vaccine by the end of 2024 may be too long in many ways, but to me it sounds like relief really may be here in my lifetime, which I don’t take lightly. There have been many days where I have assumed that I would never do many things again because it wouldn’t be safe. Any hope is welcome.
I'm with you 100%
With you 100% on this. Knocking all available wood!
A great review thank you. The skeptic in me was relieved to read this line:
“Even if it was necessary to take it every 3 or 4 months”
Given the very short incubation time, this virus will never be eradicated with vaccination like other, slower viruses like polio, smallpox, etc.
I’ll hope for good outcomes data, without major safety concerns, and gladly get a spray 2-3 times a year if needed!
Exciting news to be sure. At the risk of being an Eeyore but ever mindful of the Post marketing events that tend to discourage many from being vaccinated, whether it is scarification, intradermal, intramuscular, or intranasal, it would be very helpful, if not critical, to state upfront, the downside with regard to the administration via mist via nasal passages - the most direct route to the olfactory bulbs in the frontal lobes of the brain via the rather porous cribriform plate. mRNA vaccines have been associated with a number of inflammatory processes in certain groups of susceptibles, including myocarditis, pericarditis, and various marrow dysplasias. Should these sorts of concerns be addressed early on or should we just wait and see? It is our position, and that of many others that a credible treatment remains a priority in addition to efficacious, durable and safe vaccines
Interesting about pancytopenia after mRNA vaccination- I can only find case reports. Seems very rare to bring up as a top concern? Has this been generally accepted as causally related, and any estimate of frequency out there?
Also, any links to the olfactory/cribriform plate concerns with other nasal vaccines?
Dr McCormick, As for the frontal lobe access issue with nasal vaccines, I haven't explored that simply because it's appears only relevant because of the known effects of the SARS-Cov2 virus during the acute and long-term illness. Many people our team has treated since 2020 complained of varying degrees of "brain fog" and/or anosmia-dysguesia soon after infection so if the nasal vaccine is prevention to capitalizing on the IgA immediate antibody response in the nasal passages, it seems reasonable to question as to whether the genetically modified viral vectors could have some adverse effect not known at this time. There are reports that there are spike protein elements following mRNA vaccines found in the body many weeks after injections and the claim that they "disappear" after they've done their job at the injection site seems a bit contrived, wouldn't you say? BTW: I've had every COVID19 vaccine recommended and I do not disparage their use. I'm simply "playing the devil's advocate" and trying to keep the "all-knowing" proponents honest and open-minded. It's reasonable to question but it's even better to have some concept of the precise outcome. Precision in medicine is not exactly a reality. Sometimes we use the best weapon we have at our disposal and then have to deal with untoward unanticipated consequences. Penicillin injections come to mind......But, I am saddened when a treatment protocol is shown to be safe and efficacious and the response is "that sounds ridiculous" or "you're crazy" rather than "that's interesting. Let me see your data and your clinical responses/outcomes". That latter response has been sorely lacking for the last 4 yrs of our experiences with a credible protocol treating COVID19 in both vaccinated and unvaccinated persons of young and advanced ages. You might care to see my other comments in this substack. RS
This is such great news! I look after my elderly father, who has most of the risk factors for dying from Covid (age 84, obesity, hypertension, lung issues), even with full vaccination, so we've stayed isolated all this time. I hope your timeline is accurate, we would really like to rejoin the world one day.
I certainly would have no problem with taking such a vaccine as many times a year as is necessary. It makes me wonder whether repeated mRNA vaccination might help the elderly as well. We have a higher dose flu vaccine for >65yo, how about for covid?
Your Ground Truth Substacks. Podcasts, and commentary in scientific journals and responsible lay publications do a great service to society at a time when anti science sentiment is high and progress is mired by bureaucratic red tape. Your optimism is infectious. Whether you are writing about AI in medicine, sarbecovirus mucosal vaccines, long COVID, or half a dozen other topics in translational medicine, I know that I will learn a great deal by reading your piece and saving its contents for future reference!
So hopeful!
I appreciate how clearly you spell out the low and fleeting protection against infection from current intramuscular vaccines. Thank you for trusting readers to distinguish this from protection against severe disease. I wish more people understood this, but PH is not forthright about it.
Is it a similar case of short-lived protection against reinfection after an infection? Thanks for your good work.
Very interesting study just published in Cell (10.1016/j.cell.2023.09.013) on serotonin/tryptophan depletion in some Long-COVID patients. Gut persistence of virus leads to overproduction of interferon, decrease in tryptophan absorption, depletion of serotonin (hyper coagulation), vagal nerve hypofunction and memory impairment.